Yes I note Luca. What's your point? Well, the Muslims campaigning in their own communities are doing such a good job that we wouldn't want to endanger their efforts. Our theologians basically occupy the positions of judges as far as Islamic law is concerned. And judges don't make the law, they just apply the law. It's really no different for them than for a judge in for example Italy. That's why no fatwa's are issued condemning this practice -- because there is no legal basis for doing so. Just like a judge in Italy couldn't decide one day, because the football team he supports lost a match to a team wearing red shirts, that he was going to make the wearing of red shirts unlawful, so the Islamic jurists can't decide on a whim that they're going to make FGM unlawful. They may even be of the opinion that it should be, but that is irrelevant. So as long as people wish to obscure and ignore things like this, these pratices may never be eradicated. If they ever are, it will take a good deal more time than it otherwise might have. And how many girls will have been 'mutilated' in that time? I suppose it doesn't matter, because Islam is more important than any one girl. Or any one million girls.

Graeme, are you saying then that the only effective campaign against FGM is one in which Islam is itself transformed rather than relying on trying to change individual attitudes?

'Islam ADOPTED FGM, so that Islam can also RENOUCE to FGM or REJECT it. It's clear that a great job of persuasion is needed.' NO, it CANNOT renounce it. You CANNOT just RENOUNCE THE LAW if YOU feel INCLINED to..

Once more ... FGM is not a LAW it is a TRADITION, considered like a law in several environments, but it's not a LAW. Fahad gave a great contribution about this, and he could explain it also here ...

And everyone is inclined to follow his own traditions ... not only Muslims ... you generalize to focus your attacks against Islam. Also in Christian regions where FGM exist they follow it as a tradition and they are inclined to consider it a kind of social law ...

THAT is EXACTLY the PROBLEM Luca. EXACTLY. For it IS LAW, NOT TRADITION..

Well I suppose they go hand in hand Roche.

So Graeme, after thousends of topics you agree with me about the concept of the reform ...

Anyway, since this forum is about FGM, what do you suggest to do for Islamic regions where FGM exists and for Christian regions where FGM exists?

The same strategy or two different strategies?

'I do not believe that I claimed that:
"FGM, although purely a cultural and absolutely not a religious practice, was passed to Islam via Judaism and Christianity.."'

'I in fact claimed the following:
"It is not established though that FGM was introduced into Islam through Judaic practices since FGM spread simultaneously into Canaan and the Arabian peninsula."'

From your posts: 'ALTHOUGH BOTH EASTERNERS AND WERSTERNERS BELIEVE THAT FGM IS ASSOCIATED WITH ISLAM, IT IS NOT. FGM is not condoned by any religions and is condemned by religious leaders.'

'It emerged long before any of the monotheist religions, but that said, it didn't take long for the practice to spread into Canaan and so also influence Judaism, from which it was passed on to Christianity. And of course, through those to Islam.'

FGM, although purely a cultural and absolutely not a religious practice [ALTHOUGH BOTH EASTERNERS AND WERSTERNERS BELIEVE THAT FGM IS ASSOCIATED WITH ISLAM, IT IS NOT.], was passed to Islam via Judaism and Christianity [and so also influence Judaism, from which it was passed on to Christianity. And of course, through those to Islam.]..

I would think the same strategy. What strategy is used to try and put a stop to stonings? Why is this different? It's different because you THINK the one is tradition, not law. Do you try and reach every single Muslim in the world and tell them that this is a bad and unacceptable form of punishment? If it is law, you're really just wasting your time, so you had better hope your facts are good..